Monday, November 24th, 2008 | Author: admin
This is an open blog to discuss the proposed purchase of the Presbyterian Camps in Saugatuck Michigan from the Presbytery of Chicago… This forum is intended to be an open discussion pertaining to the effort of the LCC to preserve the mission, vision and history of the Presbyterian Camps in Saugatuck Michigan. Please feel free to post your comments, questions and concerns here in this blog..
Category: Uncategorized
Tuesday, 9. December 2008
Hello everyone and welcome to our LCC blog… we are looking forward to an open dialog with everyone who loves the Presbyterian Camps in Saugatuck Michigan…
Welcome…
Tuesday, 9. December 2008
What a wonderful website. What a wonderful idea. The whole Presbytery should cheer your efforts to preserve that beautiful, holy place.
Saturday, 20. December 2008
After reading everything over, including the Presbytery Call Papers, my initial reaction is a mix of feelings. For the most part, however, I’d say that I am excited, relieved and optimistic. I’ve known about the Presbytery of Chicago’s situation for a few months and immediately recognized that the camp, certainly being the Presbytery’s most valuable asset, would strongly considered as a source for securing the necessary funding to pay off the remaining $6.8 million. So, naturally, I was rather worried about the future of Pres Camps, but was hopeful that something new would arise… something to help Presbytery of Chicago’s financial situation while preserving the camp.
Reading over the LCC’s proposal actually got me excited for the future of the camp. My biggest worry was that the camp would be sold into development or to a group that would disconnect from the tradition of Presbyterian Camping and the commitment to environment preservation that we’ve all held so dearly since for so many years. While I don’t know all of the members of the LCC Board, the ones I do know comfort me. I know how much the camp means to you and know the care you will place into preserving what has become a special sanctuary to so many, even while we look towards the future of Pres Camps.
I am particularly excited about the vision LCC has put together. The expansion of our year-round program should help bolster our camp and some retooling in other areas will provide a fresh new start to the LCC’s vision if all goes through. If we are able to accomplish this vision and help relieve the Presbytery of Chicago’s financial situation, while maintaining a focus on nurturing all in a welcoming Christian faith and on preserving the environmental santuary that is our camp, then I believe we will be able to strike the right balance between preservation and renovation.
So, as a whole, I am enthusiastic about the LCC’s proposal. It appears that discussion between the LCC and the PRTF will need to continue to progress in order for the proposal to pass and for it to initiate, but with the proposed covenant relationship between LCC and the Presbytery, I imagine we’ve great reason to be optimistic. It gives me great comfort to be so excited about our camps future again.
…Peace and blessings to all as we continue to prayerfully pursue God’s guidance for the future of our camp.
Wednesday, 7. January 2009
I recently became aware of the plight of Presbyterian Camps and I immediately became anxious for its future.
However after reading the LCC’s proposal I feel relieved and positive about the future of Presbyterian Camps.
Presbyterian Camps is a marvelous place and it is obvious that once sold to LCC it will be in good hands.
Keep up the good work and good luck with all your efforts to save the camp.
Monday, 12. January 2009
I spent many a summer as a camper and as camp staff member at this amazing location. Words cannot express the impact of the place and its mission. The thought of this place being sold, or being sold off piece by piece is sickening and disheartening. This camp has touched so many lives and created meaningful experiences for children and adults.
I am fully in support of a plan that sets a goal of preserving the land and the mission of this camp, while further developing buildings on the camp property so that the camp can utilize and increase programming in the off season. There is so much potential for expanding the programming during the school year, as well as continuing the quality programming for the summer that causes people to return year after year.
Monday, 12. January 2009
As a former camper and counselor and now work weekender, family camper and mother of three young children (who look forward to Family Camp every summer) I cannot tell you how many ways Camp has impacted my life and that of my family. I have always dreamed of sending my children to camp in hopes that they would each have the opportunity to experience just a bit of what I was blessed to experience.
When I heard that camp as I’ve known it for 26 years might not “be” anymore my heart sank. Never in my dreams did I think it could vanish. I know it is all about location, location, location and location = $$$. To me there is no dollar amount that can be put on this holy place, created and put in our care so long ago to serve HIS purpose. I believe the Presbytery has worked hard to uphold the camp’s purpose and mission all these years and it is my prayer that both parties will continue to work together so HIS purpose can be glorified each day for generations to come in this place so many have come to love.
Tuesday, 31. March 2009
While I appreciate the efforts made and understand the deep connections many have with the camp, I do wonder if good stewardship permits selling the camp at half price? This when so many needs in the Presbytery go unmet?
Wednesday, 1. April 2009
First, evidently there is a rumor about selling at half price. I wonder where this information came from. To my knowledge only one offer has been made to the Presbytery and that is from the LCC. Since a fair market value has yet to be established, how can anyone say anything about half price?
Second, as people of faith, shouldn’t we think about more things than just money? The secular world would only think in terms of dollars and cents but we believe that God is not only the Creator of the earth but, through us, God is also the sustainer of the earth and the environment. The people of member churches of the Presbytery of Chicago have a unique opportunity to protect God’s holy ground known as Presbyterian camps, forever. The easiest thing to do would be to sell the camp to a developer so the beautiful 125 acres can be cut up for capitalist reasons. Isn’t that what got the economy in the shape it is now? As people of faith we need to set an example that there are things more important than money. We have an opportunity to be true stewards of God’s creation.
Monday, 6. April 2009
The LCC board is to be commended for the work they have done and the proposal they have created which looks to be viable and sustainable. As a member of Fourth church and deacon (and frequent camper), I know the Presbytery is in a tough spot necessitating the sale of this beloved asset with time rapidly running out.
I do have a few questions about specifics that either are not mentioned or only given cursory mention in the business plan: 1) Does any part of the plan call for selling a portion of the camps 125 acres to fund acquisition or maintenance costs? 2) The plan mentions “covenant” relationship with the Presbytery, what specifically does this mean? 3) How will the LCC ensure that the camp remain a a Christian, and hopefully, Presbyterian entity on an ongoing basis?
Wednesday, 8. April 2009
The primary goal of the LCC is to preserve and protect the Presbyterian Camps for future generations. The LCC business plan does not anticipate the sale of camp property. The primary focus of the LCC business plan is the development of a comprehensive 12 month programming model that will be supported by the construction of new lake front cabins.
The responses to your second and third questions are closely related. The covenant relationship is envisioned by the LCC as an agreement that would establish parameters for a long term relationship between the camp and the Presbytery of Chicago. There has been little discussion of the details at this point but the LCC anticipates that such an agreement would provide for a collaborative approach to the oversight, development and operations of the Presbyterian Camps. The LCC is currently working with consultants of the Presbyterian Church Camp and Conference Association (PCCCA) to research existing models of Presbyterian Camps in the US that are owned by separate 501©(3) corporations and yet maintain a viable and functional relationship with their Presbytery.
There was a recent press release regarding Ghost Ranch in New Mexico, which is currently owned by our national denomination. You can find this press release at: http://www.pcusa.org/pcnews/2009/09257),
This article indicates that Ghost Ranch may be spun off as a separate not-for-profit corporation. The structure outlined in that article is very similar to the relationship that the LCC would anticipate with the Presbytery of Chicago. We are currently making contact with a number of separately incorporated Presbyterian Camps and doing research in order to understand their relationship structures and how their operational models might be applied to our own situation.
Saturday, 18. April 2009
For me, I can remember the night as vividly as if it happened last week. I can tell you my age, what I was feeling, all the emotions, and most of all I can tell you place. You remember milestones in your life, and for me, summer camp is where I accepted Christ as my Lord & Savior. That one event has changed me forever, and has shaped my life since then. We need this holy place to introduce Christ to generations to come. We need this holy place as an escape from our daily lives. We need it’s solitude, it’s refreshing atmosphere, it’s renewing spirit, and it’s continual reminder of Gods’ creation. In closing, when I discussed this with other families of our church, and the possibility of it closing forever, a child shouted out, “not Jesus camp”. It reminded me that this is not a Presbyterian camp, but this camp belongs to Jesus. Just like our communion table is not a Presbyterian table, but God’s table. It belongs to everyone!
Friday, 21. August 2009
My husband and I have been reading the website with great interest. We are currently vacationing in Saugatuck and visited the campgrounds. We are Presbyterians, practicing in Evanston. Our concern is that the land, or some portion of the land can be resold at some time in the future. Will there be a statement in the executed contract that says that under no circumstances will any portion of the current property be sold for real estate development any other purpose?
In addition, where are the loans coming from to purchase the Camp?
Thanks for your consideration!
Wednesday, 16. September 2009
Christine thank you for taking the time to post your question on the LCC blog.
The intent of the LCC is not to sell any of the parcels of land that make up the Presbyterian Camps. The LCC has developed a comprehensive business plan that promotes the use of the Presbyterian Camps in line with it’s current mission.
The LCC is also proposing that once the LCC has paid off the debt that is currently on the property it would enter into an agreement with the State of Michigan that would place the property into an enviornmental conservancy easement.
The use of an environmental easement would basically require the LCC to sell the building rights on the property and restrict future use of each parcel of land. The LCC has been in conversatiosn with the Western Michigan Conservancy to discuss this process.
I hope this answers your question….
Tuesday, 19. January 2010
Was very satisfy to find this website.I would like to thank you for this nice read!! I obviously happy every little bit of it and I have bookmarked to check out new stuff you post.
Thursday, 28. January 2010
I wanted to cry when I found out that the camp my be sold to developers. I would like to pledge money for the purpose of buying the camp but have questions. Will this pledged money be used only by the LCC for the purchase of the campground and not be used by the Presbytery of Chicago for some other means? Also, is it tax deductible?
I wholeheartedly agree that this shouldn’t be all about money, but also about preserving the nature, environment and magical place that we will never be able to find again if we should lose it. My prayers and thanks go to the LCC Board for your hard work and vision in preserving this rare beauty.
Thursday, 28. January 2010
Hi Kim,
Yes all donations or pledges to the LCC are tax deductible. The monies will be used to purchase the camp from the Presbytery of Chicago and to develop the ministries of the Presbyterian Camps in Saugatuck Michigan. Thank you for your support and please refer to the LCC web site for ongoing updates related to our efforts to preserve the Presbyterian Camps.